Talk:FlexCar Deal

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Revision as of 16:48, 2 December 2005 by 192.168.3.13 (talk) (An attempt, in spring 2005, to get Flexcar to donate car use for pickups.)
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General Intro:

Free Geek gets frequent requests from potential donors of hardware, who want to have stuff picked up. Currently there is no way for FG to meet these requests, so we end up turning down donations. This negatively impacts (1) potential income and (2) our ability to fulfill our mission of keeping hardware out of landfills.

FlexCar is a company that rents out cars, vans etc. for short-term use. If we could arrange a trade with them, where we help them get more members and they donate use of their vehicles, it could met this need.

As we work out a deal, we want to avoid the following scenario:

1. FreeGeek and FlexCar work out a deal, where the hours we "earn" are contingent on how many FlexCar members FG refers.
2. FreeGeek starts offering pickups.
3. Member referrals don't meet expectations, so FreeGeek can't deliver the service advertised.

To my way of thinking, we need to do two kinds of things to avoid this scenario. On the one hand, we need to ensure that a trade with FlexCar is fair to us, so that we're getting a good deal. On the other hand, we need to do some internal work: figure out how we would implement pickups, what a donor needs to qualify for a pickup, etc.

Below is a copy of my correspondence, to date, with Steve Gutmann of Flexcar.

-Pete

Details

Her Majesty's Secret Service
For the first month or so we could try NOT offering the service. Just having it be done when we are asked. That way we can feel how much demand there is and hopefully work out bugs.
I would suggest offering, but not promoting the service. That is, add a tidbit to [the appropriate page on the website] describing the service and attached fees - but not putting it on our news page or anything. I think we won't get an accurate picture of the demand if we wait to be asked, since we've said for so long that we don't do it.

Dolla Dolla Bills Yalls
We should determine just how much we are charging for these pickups. Does Flexcar know we are charging for this for service? will they care? other issues becuase its being used for business?

At the [ACCRC] they charge $500 per pickup or the cost of what they pickup ($10/monitor, $5/system, etc.) whichever is greater. Having a minimum fee will prevent us from pickinup up a single 14" monitor in Forest Grove

Lane County CRRC (née MacRenewal) offers pickups pretty much explicitly for businesses. Their fee structure from [their website] is as follows: 

   * $30.00 an hour labor
   * $1.00 per mile
   * $50.00 minimum
     plus
   * $15.00 per monitor or other CRT devices

We should ask our MacLady what she thinks of her system. ok im doin' that. I will post with her comments. Revphil 01:51, 19 Apr 2005 (PDT)

Tick Tock You Dont Stop correct my estimations:

  • Getting to location (picking up truck, driving to location, finding it) 45min
  • Loading up (gathering/tallying gizmos, writing recipts(?), explaining something about the geek) 30min
  • Coming back (drive to Geek, unload, front desk paperwork, return flexcar) 45min

We will likely want to have multiple pickups once it gets rolling, but 2 hours seems like a reasonable ammount of time time.

I Got Your Sustainability Right Here
Also, I would like to see us offer bicycle delivery, where feasable. Its good PR and makes me happy. I would gladly take up this endevor. Pete and revphil are looking at our options Maybe we can collaborate with Magpie Messenger Collective on this?

You Want it When?
Also the ACCRC schedules pickups a week in advance. Seems that is a good idea Revphil 10:10, 18 Mar 2005 (PST)

Correspondence

Original Message-----

From: Pete Forsyth To: steve .gutmann @ flexcar .com Sent: 3/16/2005 5:17 PM Subject: business partnership proposal 

Dear Steve,

We would like to suggest a partnership between Free Geek and Flexcar, which we believe would be beneficial to both parties.

Free Geek is a local nonprofit organization dedicated to recycling used computers and parts. We also perform other forms of community service, including computer education and equipment grants to other nonprofit organizations. In the four years since its inception, Free Geek has grown to the point where it supports 13 staff members, over 200 active volunteers, and has put over 4,000 computers back into service (many going to volunteers of limited financial means), entirely from used parts that have been donated. Free Geek's accomplishments have been recognized by numerous grants, recognition in local and national news media, and several corporate sponsors. Free Geek is a unique organization, but its success has inspired new groups from Pennsylvania to South Africa.

One problem that has arisen an number of times is that a potential donor has good computer equipment to give, but is not able or willing to transport it to our recycling center (which is located at 10th and Mill in Southeast Portland.)

Free Geek does not own a vehicle, and we are hoping that it might be possible to work something out with Flexcar to meet this occasional need. We have had a Flexcar membership for some time, but the costs of using Flexcar vehicles has been prohibitive, and when the need for a vehicle comes up we have sought other options.

We are hoping for the ability to use a Flexcar vehicle, for free or for a reduced rate, for a few hours every month. (The best vehicles would be1124, 1105, 1109 and 1179 due to their proximity to Free Geek, and their cargo capacity.)

Free Geek would benefit greatly from increased flexibility in accepting donations. Our ability to accept more donations correlates directly to the amount of benefit we can provide to the community as a whole, in keeping tech waste out of landfills, and putting computer equipment back into use.

Free Geek has a large (and constantly growing) pool of volunteers. These are generally people who care about the environment and their community; and likely the kind of people who would be interested in a company like Flexcar. We expect Flexcar could benefit from a partnership that would expose its services to a large and receptive market.

If you see any benefit to cooperating in this manner, please contact me by email, or at 503-788-6825.

Here's hoping we can work together to build a better Portland!

Peter Forsyth volunteer Build Instructor Free Geek


Steve Gutmann wrote: 

Pete-

GREAT IDEA!!!! We'd be happy to work something out. I'm very familiar with what you guys do, and I love it! Mark Nieman-Ross lives across the street, and Oso Martin worked with me early on, to get set up using Flexcar, so I'm pretty familiar with what you guys do.

Let me tell you a bit about Flexcar's situation. Flexcar is growing rapidly, but we're in a race to get to a scale where we're cash-flow positive. To get there we need one thing: more paying members who use Flexcar.

So rather than a recurring usage donation, I propose that we start Free Geek off with a small donation of usage and memberships, to get a few of your employees signed up. Then, going forward, Free Geek can help us find new members and in exchange, we'll pay you with "referral credits." We can set Free Geek with a setup similar to what we do with New Seasons and (soon) the Bicycle Transportation Alliance. Check this out:

www.newseasonsmarket.com

If you click on the Flexcar logo, you get offered a "Deal for New Seasons Customers." Anyone who signs up using this promo code gets up to $60 of free Flexcar use ($25 for shopping at New Seasons; $35 for having a transit pass). New Seasons gets a $20 referral credit per new member referred. So far this month, New Seasons has earned at least $140 of usage this way.

Like New Seasons, Free Geek would put a small "check out Flexcar" message on your homepage, in your newsletter, in your lobby, etc. -- noting that if your supporters join, it also helps Free Geek.

With only 3 staff trying to manage 85 cars and 6500 members (and no retail presence) we increasingly rely on referral channels like this to help us get the word out. You'd be doing us as much of a favor as we'd be doing you.

Does that sound fair? If there's some other arrangement that you'd like to explore, I'm all ears. This is pretty attractive because we've done it a few times already, but we try to stay open to new ideas, and would be happy to try another approach.

Let me know if you want to play. If you do, feel free to tailor the New Seasons message, add the Free Geek Logo, and send it back to me. Once we get the page finalized, we'll link it to your site, our "Member Specials" page, and our application form.

Call me if you want to talk more, or I'll try to reach you between meetings today. My cell: 503-572-4487. 


Hi Steve,

Thanks for the quick and enthusiastic response! I'm not prepared to reply in detail right this moment, but I want to give you a clearer picture of how FG will need to work in order to set something up. Basically, there is a group ("The Council") which has the authority to approve this sort of thing; as an individual volunteer (or even if I were on paid staff), I don't have that authority, but what I can do is hammer out a proposal and bring it to the next Council meeting for approval (mid-April; we meet every month.)

So, as to how fair, and how beneficial to Free Geek, your ideas sound, my personal opinion is not necessarily too important in the long run! But with that understanding, are my thoughts: I like that you suggest quantifying both ends of the deal, so that we don't have an abstract concept (exposure and visibility) being traded for a specific service (X hours of car usage per month.)

I suspect there is one factor that will become the deciding factor for FreeGeek. Currently, FreeGeek does not and can not offer the service of picking up equipment from donators. So, there are donations Free Geek cannot accept, which is a detriment both financially and in terms of our mission.

If a deal with FlexCar can make it possible to offer a new service, improving that situation, that's fantastic. But the danger is, if we make an arrangement, and start offering this new service, and then can't afford to deliver on it (because we're not getting FlexCar enough new members), that could damage Free Geek, financially and/or reputation-wise.

So my main focus in trying to work out a deal will be trying to assess that issue. And possibly, trying to develop a parallel proposal (what size donation/distance qualifies somebody for a pickup service, etc.) Having the specific numbers you sent will be very helpful in getting the ball rolling. My next step is to brainstorm with other Free Geek people, so I should be able to get back to you with something more substantive in a week or so.

Thanks again, and I look forward to talking with you!

-Pete

--Halfasspete 11:23, 18 Mar 2005 (PST)


New Seasons: NOT the coolest nonprofit ever

not to sound offended, but they are offering us the same deal as new seasons? COME ON! we deserve better.

I don't see us as being able to sustain enough new Flexcar users to maintain this system. (well, maybe with $100 credit per new user, not sure... ill check flex car's rates... YIKES! I saw a quote at $9/hour. Meaning we would need a signup every time we took the truck out (using my prior formula where an avg. pickup = 2 hours). This is the same deal they offer to ANY flexcar user. We dont even need to be having this conversation with this guy. At least not until they offer us something to justify our involvment. [1]

We need to have a good strategy for negoations. We will explain that Flexcar's additional benifit in partnering with us is that we provide their literature in hand. When we make a pickup with their truck we tell the donor about flexcar and offer them a brochure. Folks who need us to do a pickup are Flexcar's target market.

We will need to determine a cost assoicated with pickups. (which will reduce the number of pickups we have to make) MacReunal's system looks okay. do you think FlexCar is going to be cool with our charging a fee to their potential customers? Do we even need to tell them?

thanks for the work, pete Revphil

Mac Lady Speaketh

Here are some thoughts about pickups from Lorraine of the Lane County Computer Reuse and Recycling Center


Hi Phil baby, Pickups have been a good time investment for recycling promotion, not a huge money maker over all. We charge for travel time to site, pickup time, and return to shop time. If the pickup requires more than 1 person, we charge for all bodies coming to the site. If the donor only has systems, then they get charged for pickup time and gas. We charge $35.00 for anything over 50 pounds (copiers, servers, floor printers, etc). Now, remember, we use my van. I pay for the insurance and etc. so I have been very choosy who does the pickups (cause I would personally have to cover any accidents). Once the DEQ grant comes through, MacRenewal will own the van (whew). I got commercial insurance on the van because of the pickup. Spendy. Having a large vehicle is critical. We have a large flat trailer that a volunteer permits us to use to pick up pallets/gaylords/items over 50 pounds, etc. My van has a heavy haul hitch installed and an extra break so we can pull a ton 'o weight. Having handtrucks/rolling carts is important. Bring extra boxes for the stuff the donor throws on the pickup pile. Ask ahead of time if the items are palletized and if the donor has a forklift or pallet jack on site.

Every single pickup we have done has had the following scenario:

  • - We set up the appointment
  • - We get a list of every item being donated (some things are listed as: 2 boxes cables, 3 boxes keyboards, or 51 systems, 26 monitors, 4 boxes misc., like that).
  • - We ask that everything be located on the lower floor, near an elevator, boxed up, palletized, whatever, to make it easier to move the material quickly and safely.
  • - we give an exact price for pickup and ask that a check be prepared (if the donor is new or if we have had trouble getting $ from the donor in the past). We have billed larger businesses (TAKES MONTHS TO GET PAID), state offices, and we take POs from schools....

then:

  • - At the time of pickup: there is always more hardware than what was reported in the setup call ("I just found another closet full of stuff!" "Oh, could you take these items too?" "I forgot to clean out Freddy's desk" etc).
  • - All but one donor missed the piece about getting the material close to a door or elevator. The donor ends up paying more because it takes us longer to move the material, so if they wrote a check ahead of time-it can cause a problem-everyone has made good on the labor and gas cost, however-we have been very lucky.
  • -All donors want the pickup to go quickly. It is inconvenient for them to have material laying around and they want it out of the way. It is just like all trash collection-we don't want to see you and we don't want to hear you. As most pickups occur at businesses, they expect that the person who picks up looks clean and tidy. Don't send folks who aren't clean looking or who are wearing t-shirts with alternative slogans on 'em-it hasn't happened to us, but I have heard from others who do pickups (Goodwill, St. Vincent's, Bring Recycling, that their folks have not been admitted to businesses because of their appearance.) Whoever you have do pickups, make sure they can communicate well, aren't loud, and can handle the businesses' paperwork.

So, I hope this helps. Personally, I really enjoy doing the pickups. I like the interaction with businesses, getting them excited about e-waste recycling, and getting out in the world.

raino


so in conclusion i think times up portland was a silly idea, we should never have tried to copy those guys.

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